Dear Heather
What if the key to changing the world starts with understanding ourselves?
Welcome to Dear Heather — the podcast where mental health meets consciousness, neuroscience meets spirituality, and raw human experience meets real solutions. Hosted by Heather, a mental health advocate, super feeler, and someone who has walked through the fire of depression, anxiety, and devastating loss, this show exists for one reason: to bring awareness to the things that are breaking us and start building what will actually heal us.
Each episode is a deep dive into the full spectrum of what it means to be human — from the neuroscience of rewiring your brain and the power of neuroplasticity to the mystery of angel numbers, synchronicity, and collective consciousness. From the epidemic of youth mental health and men’s mental health to the broken systems failing the people who need them most.
From quantum physics and Schumann resonance to the quiet, radical act of learning to love yourself.
This is not surface-level self-help. This is alchemy — transforming pain into purpose, suffering into awareness, and silence into conversation.
Here’s what you can expect: real interviews with mental health professionals, neuroscientists, healers, and everyday humans who have survived the darkest of days and found their way back to the light. Every episode carries an educational element — because understanding the root cause of our suffering is the first step to ending it. We confront what isn’t working — the healthcare systems, the stigma, the disconnection — and we start talking about what will.
Dear Heather was born from personal experience. Heather is one of five brothers’ sister who lost a brother to mental illness. She has navigated her own battles with depression and anxiety for most of her life. She knows what it feels like to carry the weight of the world because you can feel everything — and she turned that into a mission: if the suffering of others hurts you, then help dismantle what’s causing it.
Whether you are on a healing journey, seeking change, or simply curious about why the world feels the way it does right now, this podcast will meet you where you are. We explore the spiritual and the scientific — yoga, meditation, and frequency healing alongside trauma recovery, emotional regulation, and the psychology of empathy. We talk about the woo-woo and the clinical. The 5D and the everyday. The mystical and the deeply practical.
Because mental illness is an epidemic. And what we’ve been doing isn’t working. So let’s get to the root of it — together.
New episodes bring fresh perspectives on consciousness, self-awareness, personal growth, suicide prevention, neurodivergence, mindfulness, holistic wellness, and the radical power of human connection. Dear Heather is more than a podcast. It’s a movement — starting with Dear Neighbor and expanding into every corner where people are suffering in silence.
Subscribe now and join a community of super feelers, seekers, and change-makers who believe the world can be different. Because it can. And it starts with a conversation.
Let’s change the world one discussion at a time.
Dear Heather
Why Vulnerability is a Man's Superpower with Josh Koepp
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this candid episode of Dear Men Let's Talk, Heather Godby welcomes Josh Koepp of Valor Men's Coaching to tackle the urgent crisis of men's mental health. Josh vulnerably shares his journey from debilitating anxiety and relational trauma to empowerment through faith and self-discovery. This conversation explores the unique challenges men face in modern dating, the roots of toxic relationship dynamics, and the critical importance of self-love and mentorship for personal growth. Discover practical strategies for reclaiming strength, navigating emotional struggles, and fostering genuine connections in today's world.
What You'll Learn:
- Josh Koepp's personal battle with anxiety and how it shaped his path.
- The impact of childhood trauma and family patterns on adult mental health.
- The role of faith and mentorship in overcoming personal challenges.
- How modern digital culture affects dating for men.
- Understanding control and manipulation in toxic relationships as manifestations of unresolved trauma.
- The differences between anxious, avoidant, and secure attachment styles.
- Strategies for men to rebuild confidence and self-love after difficult relationships.
- The underlying reasons for the high rates of male suicide and how to offer better support.
- The importance of strong male networks and accountability partners for men's well-being.
Don't miss this essential conversation that champions vulnerability, growth, and real solutions for men's well-being.
#DearMen #MensMentalHealth #JoshKoepp #ValorMensCoaching #ToxicRelationships
Josh Koepp is the founder of Valor Men’s Coaching, where he helps men overcome fear, anxiety, toxic relationships, and other challenges that keep them from living with purpose and confidence. Through faith-based coaching rooted in accountability, ownership, and personal growth, Josh equips men to lead well in their relationships, careers, families, and their faith walk. Drawing from his own experiences and transformation, he is passionate about helping men build lives marked by courage, integrity, and lasting freedom.
https://www.instagram.com/joshdkoepp?igsh=MWF5c3Nmenh1anVsbw%3D%3D&utm_source=qr
https://youtube.com/@valormenscoaching?si=FI8Qz9GD_DLpHREk
Connect With Heather:
Instagram: @dearheather__
TikTok: @dearheather__
This podcast is proudly produced by PS Studios, learn more at www.psstudios.co
Hi everyone. Welcome to a brand new segment called Dear Men. This does still fall under my umbrella of Dear Heather, but this is a place where I want to get vulnerable and open with men. Because right now we are facing an epidemic and it's a crisis for the men going through mental health struggles. So today I have Josh Kepp, the founder of Valor Men's Coaching, where he really truly helps men get to the bottom of their depression, their anxiety, relationships, and helps them navigate through finding themselves, through self-love, the journey of faith, and everything under the sun to get you back to where you need to be. So without further ado, welcome, Josh. How are you today?
SPEAKER_00Happy to be here. Thank you for having me on.
SPEAKER_02Excellent. Okay, I'm just gonna jump in like I did last time.
SPEAKER_00Please.
SPEAKER_02Josh, if you look back over your life, what are a couple of defining moments that shaped you into the man you are today and led you to start Valor Men's Coaching?
SPEAKER_00Well, um, appreciate the question. So I would say there's there's many to choose from, uh, a couple in particular. So grew up uh in an environment, um, in a family environment, there was a lot of divorce, five divorces on my mom's side, five or four on my dad's side. Parents divorced when I was eight. There was a whole um whole lot of um just bumpiness in the childhood, and you know, a lot of incoming, outgoing parental figures and things of that nature. So what I knew it as a excuse me at an early age is people constantly coming and going, which created a lot of inconsistencies and a lot of uh just you know, not feeling a whole lot of um love and security. So I navigated um life that way uh for such a long time and really developed this underlying fear and anxiety. I watched my parents both deal with it, operate in this anxiety kind of bubble, so to speak. And uh as I got into my teens and to my early 20s, and it's college and it's you know, high school sports and all of this kind of stuff kind of come and go, and and this anxiety just continually builds. And, you know, I got into my early 20s, I was in college, and um met somebody, and you know, that relationship was really early on in the stages, and um her family was very much um, I guess uh were they got married young, so they figured that their their child should do the same. And they had a conversation that uh, you know, was like, hey, we really think you two should really start to build for for marriage, and I'm 21 years old, and like what am I doing? But I'm I'm getting to this point because it again it goes back to my childhood where there was so many inconsistencies and disruption that what was potentially attractive in this relationship was the security of the family unit. So um, so I gravitated towards that, and long story short, um got into a a really um a relationship very early on in life that um you know was quite a bit sooner than it probably should have been. And so because of the disruption in childhood, I made some some decisions that weren't that weren't uh I would say very timely. Um but what I learned from that and through those circumstances was was invaluable. Um found my relationship with with the Lord back then, um, was able to turn that around, everything turned in a 180 in that at that time period. And then uh that relationship came to a close in a really abrupt manner, and then what really took place, and getting back to the heart of your question, um I went through four and a half, five years of debilitating fear and anxiety. Because of that failed relationship, combined with everything that took place in my childhood that I had never processed. There was layers and layers and layers of trauma that um came from all of that that I was really good at burying or ignoring. I just was had this idea that hey, everybody goes through some stuff, that's just my stuff to go through, and we're just gonna pass it on and let it be where it is, you know. And so um there were a couple of things. So it was like somebody came in a room and flipped the switch one day, and all of a sudden I had this massive amount of oppression, um, depression lumps in there, but fear and anxiety, where I literally could not some some days I couldn't even take a step without feeling like a heaviness. And um it just it just snowballed and snowballed and snowballed. I wouldn't, it got so bad I wouldn't get in an elevator. I wouldn't do anything that I felt stuck or trapped in. So wow, yeah. So I would not get in anybody's car unless I was driving it.
SPEAKER_02This is this is something I've never heard of before.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So the big part of this, and what has turned out to be such an amazing blessing. So, with my parents being divorced, everybody's kind of scattered all around the the uh the nation. And um, I grew up in Michigan, but at the time, my um mom, sister, everybody else was out west. So that required me to go visit them, get on an airplane, and go travel. Well, as you can imagine, if I couldn't get in an elevator, I surely couldn't get in an airplane. So I probably booked seven or eight flights that I would the the day of the flight would just bail on the flight and I wouldn't go to the airport. Then there was probably four more flights after that that I would actually book the flight, check my luggage, go get on the plane, and as soon as I knew they were gonna shut the door, I'd get off and walk off the plane, walk out of the airport, a debilitating, sobbing, depressed mess, and go home and just sit and think about what I just did. Failed my family, um, a big wimp, you know, like what like all of these things go through your head, but that was the level of um I'm gonna say oppression that accompanied the fear and anxiety. It was a heaviness that I had never never experienced before. So that's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Talk about building, and then it just snowballs the more you do something that you know you can't overcome. But a lot of people, I feel like, do go through life suppressing emotions, and we don't realize that we're doing that at the time until it bubbles up and it comes out in different ways. And I'm sure that we're gonna talk more granularly on this. However, to be so paralyzed by that anxiety, and it does come in different ways, like to for your example, not being able to get in the car or a plane or an elevator. I mean, if you really look at that, that's incredibly just destructive to your own growth.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's I mean, it's terrible. I remember going to work conferences in my mid-20s and you know, just still dealing with this, right? And avoiding airplanes and driving to meetings that are states away that I should have been flying to. And I remember one time this was back in Michigan, and we had this beautiful resort, and we had a a meeting at the top of this resort tower. It was like 27 floors, and everybody else is getting in the elevator, and I'm searching around, asking people where hey, where are the stairs? So 15, 20 minutes later, here I am arriving to the to the event. It was just irrational things that took place that you make that you do make sense of in your head. Like, well, I'm not gonna do that, I'm gonna avoid that, so I'm gonna go do this. So, yeah, it affected a lot of areas in life, relationships, family, um, friendships, work, you name it. It was it was a blanket issue.
SPEAKER_02And so, was it the faith and your belief in God and having that relationship that broke you out of that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was a that was a major component of it. So um it's like I said, out of that that relationship, that field of relationship, um, came a um a reconnection to the Lord and my relationship there, and just understanding my faith and understanding what the word says about various things, such as anxiety and fear, and how you know we have the ability to navigate that um by leaning into the Lord. And one of the things that really helped me was understanding that I wasn't born with this and this innate, like, you know, you're just gonna have this massive amount of oppression and anxiety and fear. So here you go, that's yours. I had to eliminate that and say, okay, well, where did I get this from? Like, why is this hitting me right now? And that's when I really started to dig into generational and family patterns, family environments, learned behaviors. So, you know, I looked at, well, my mom has anxiety like that. And my grandfather on that side of the family has anxiety, and my dad's got a little bit of it too. Well, it just runs in the family, and you start to adopt this as truth for yourself. Um, there is good and there is evil spirit spiritually in this world, and that is one thing that I had to really understand as well. Um, that there is a there is an enemy trying to choke the life out of my life, and there is a guy that's trying to propel me and to to help me live in the freedom that he provided. So that was a big piece. Um, I had some great mentors back then. Um, you can I can certainly expand on how it, what like the disdefining moment is. Um, but um, yeah, it was it was a huge component of it, and it was just a thorough understanding of understanding, kind of like uh ripping up all of the train tracks of your life and then relaying them.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's a big task, and you need a new plan so that those train tracks are better than what they were before.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. And it's an understanding, it was it was a good education and um all those things.
SPEAKER_02So you know what I love about mentorship and coaching, and I'm not against therapy. I think therapy serves a great purpose. However, when I was younger experiencing depression and anxiety, therapy wasn't it for me, and I don't think it would be it for me now. I would lean towards more of a mentorship or a coach that has gone through the same thing that or similar things that I've gone through. My issue with the therapist, it's a very could be, unless you find a good one, there are good ones out there. Unless somebody's lived it, I just don't know if they can really give me the advice that I need. And so again, when we talk about leadership and going through the things that we did experience, those darker moments and those unsure moments, I think it it is a gift that we had that and survive that so that we can be those mentors and those coaches for people that might need somebody that has gone through that experience to get them out of what they're going through.
SPEAKER_00So true. I I couldn't agree more. And you know, with what I coach men on is everything that I went through. Um I'm not I'm not a coach for everybody um on every single topic just because I'm a men's coach. Uh fear anxiety and relationships is where is where I coach because I've I've been there, went through a lot of things related to those things. So um, and especially you mentioned mentors, so important, somebody to walk through those things with you. I remember um being in church service, and there was uh a gentleman there who ran a counseling center um locally, this is back in Michigan, and he talked about the specific things that they they really focused in on. A lot of it was anxiety and depression and things like that. And um the last time that I went to the airport and had this thing happen where I was sitting in my seat and um grabbing my stuff and walked off, I immediately made a phone call and uh you know got a hold of somebody and said, Hey, I need to see somebody for this. And you know, I was very much anticipating a really long wait to get in there because that's just how this place was. It was tough to get into. And she says, Well, how quickly can you be here? And the minute that I got to my car, the time it took me to get out of the parking garage and drive two and a half hours back to where I was living and get there was within two minutes of when they had an available appointment. That just suddenly popped open. So that was really the start of my of getting myself back on track. But the mentor piece is so important because you can sit in coaching, you can go um to counseling and therapy and all these different things. There is a time when you have to go implement. So I remember one of my one of my longtime mentors, um, you know, I was I was really ready to face some of this stuff, and we went and rode the elevator at Macy's department store back then. I felt like a complete weirdo. It's like this glass elevator, and I'm circling it, and people are looking at me like, what in the world's fucked up with this guy? And then I'm in it and I'm riding it up and down, up and down, getting out. And so um, you know, it just it's just the crazy things that you have to do, but that was a foundational piece you have to go implement and do.
SPEAKER_02It reminds me of the movie Big, you know, where it's like getting off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I love that. I mean, I do think identifying number one, the issue, and then being proactive and accountable to make that change. There's a saying, and I'm not gonna get this right, but the principle of it is people don't change until they're just so uncomfortable or they can't stand it anymore and they're forced to change. It's almost like hitting that rock bottom. Uh however, I would hope that people like you and I can help people before they hit that rock bottom because rock bottom is not a place you want to be.
SPEAKER_00No, no, it's something you want to definitely avoid, and that's again, you know, and it is avoidable avoidable. 100% is okay.
SPEAKER_02On to the next. Let's go a little bit into dating now versus then. From what you see with your clients, what feels uniquely hard about dating in today's world for men compared to even just 10 years ago?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Great question. Um this day and age, there are so many different um dopamine hit options. There's dopamine hit options and there's distractions, and there's all of these different things that are pulling people in different directions. I remember, you know, growing up when all we had was a landline phone, right? And if you had an interest in somebody and you were talking and dating and whatever, you call you when I get home. I'm gonna call you from the car, because I barely existed then. So there was a simplicity that accompanied dating. Um now it's you know, get behind this and I can use this as a barrier. I can use this as a barrier to not commit, to not be intentional. Um instead of asking somebody for their phone number, I can go into a direct message thing on social. Um, but I can have all of these different things going on at one time, so I feel like I'm not overly committed. I think that's a big fear right now in the dating area, especially with younger people, is well, I don't want to I don't want to fully commit. I want to like keep my options open and I want to make sure that I have flexibility to move in and out of different situations however I see fit. So this kind of falls into a different category of how men are supposed to be leading um and acting as men and leading. Uh so it's it's um I think men just have to have to uh be different than what the societal norms want us to be.
SPEAKER_02That is good.
SPEAKER_00It's a decision. And um, you know, uh and and treating treating women and dating like they deserve to be treated and cared for. And um, you know, because you make the decision to care for somebody's heart in dating, it doesn't mean that it's some like substantial thing and you're in this massive relationship. It's just you're you're making decisions based on caring for that other person and that your decisions have an impact on them, sometimes lasting impact. So it's having a self-respect, it's having a respect for the other person. But uh again, you come back to the word accountability, which is overarching in a lot of areas. So I would say that's um that's primarily where it starts.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's so many different ways to go. All each one of these questions I feel like could be its own episode, but you did hit on a few things like the dopamine hit, the distractions, and it is different because the intent, you almost had to have an intent back then to pick up the phone and you would look forward to calling that person. You scheduled it out. And I've said this so many times on my podcast, and this is the one thing that I get a lot of love and hate from both men and women when I say this. But when I start dating a man and I go on his social media, the first thing I do is look at what he's following, the comments he's making, what pictures he's liking, because I need to know what he is putting in front of himself every single day. And we are in that swipe culture and we are in that very easy culture where people just, it's a rapid, quick hit. And for me, I think, and I would be amiss if I didn't think that if I were to have half naked pictures on my Instagram all the time, a good guy that the level that I'm looking for would not necessarily find someone like me attractive if I were doing that because of people hate when I do this, but like it's it's almost like a scale. It's almost like a level of, and I find nothing wrong. If that's what you like, find that. But but don't expect to have everything you want, and it doesn't match what you are currently putting out in the world. You cannot have both. You really need a structure, and so that's where people get a little confused with where I head with that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because it's not, it has nothing to do about the women, has nothing to do about some women are better than others. I'm just talking about you need to really be realistic with what you are putting out and leveraging into the world versus what you think you deserve.
SPEAKER_00Or what are you focusing on? Like what why are you following all of these women? Why are you following these types of accounts? You're consuming this, so therefore, that's what you believe you need. Is there a is there some kind of a deficit in life that that you have to go get filled up by this? What is it that's leading to the desire to be intentionally following or consuming that information? And I think that is a majorly like um important filter for men and women to filter this the decision-making process through when it comes to dating. Exploring their social media, I think, is a very important piece.
SPEAKER_02I think it's almost uh it should be a prereq before you really dive in. I think you should do your homework. You do you do your homework on jobs that you want, on your friends. I mean, not necessarily, but you definitely have to have some kind of like mind.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's a vetting process.
SPEAKER_02This is a, I mean, I love I can get into the dating culture so so deeply, but we'll move on to well, this flows quite nicely, toxic relationships and recovery. You talk a lot about men feeling stuck in toxic relationships and wanting to rebuild confidence. When a man is walking on eggshells, being controlled, or hiding what's really going on, what does it practically look like for him to reclaim his strength and leave or change that dynamic? It's really, we've talked about this before, and you brought up the control versus leadership.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um we'll get to that topic. Let me address the first part of your question because it's it's so vital. And I I can't tell you the number of guys that I that I coach in this area. It's it's incredible. So, you know, the eggshell terminology, it's thrown around a lot, like, oh, she's got me walking on eggshells, or he's got me walking on eggshells, and I don't, you know. Well, what does that mean? What is what is the underlying issue that's causing you to be doing that? Um so ultimately what we're what we're dealing with here is if somebody feels like they have to walk on eggshells, there's a control mechanism in place. And control comes from an unresolved trauma, an unresolved insecurity. Um, something that either happened through a previous relationship, something that happened in family life, something that happened in uh some kind of a trauma as a child, something you witnessed. Um so then when somebody does not deal with that. Okay, if they're in it, maybe they're in a previous relationship, and this comes up, and that person says, Hey, you know, why the all the control? Why are why are we trying to control or why are you trying to control what I'm doing at every turn? Unless that's dealt with, all it does is snowball and compound. So you're you're towing along all of this stuff from your childhood or past relationships, and you drag it into your current. And what ends up happening is people control for comfort. They want to remain insulated and not have to be accountable to maybe the things that they participated in. So they control everybody else's actions around them, especially their significant others, to acquiesce to what they want them to do. What does that create? Well, it creates a sense of walking on eggshells. But the underlying piece is that other person feels totally fine being controlled. Well, why? Because with control comes manipulation. If you don't do this, then this. That just keeps heading down the same set of train tracks. And so the control mechanism is it just it goes far and wide. It falls in the same bucket as manipulation, narcissism, you name it. All of those components feed off of one another.
SPEAKER_02The control and we had a conversation about this, and it brought up something that I can relate to when I was younger, and I've since then have really grown and started to love myself so I don't fall under this umbrella anymore, but I can understand it. Is the anxious attachment, I actually was a very controlling person because I was anxiously attached. I kept grabbing more and more, more and more. And I needed that person to always be around me, or I needed to know what they were doing. I was just a crazy person, really, because I wasn't full myself. So I was constantly needing to know that that person, but what that does is it suffocates the other person. And regardless if you're anxious, if you have that anxious attachment style or you're a detached avoidant, because I feel like when you talk about the elevator and controlling those different aspects of your life, it's almost like you were avoiding those things in a way of not dealing with it, you know, and it can show up in relationships as well. And I see this so many times that men, more men are the avoidant type they run, and women are the attached. I think that there's a little bit of a role reversal right now. Um, just from my experience dating, I'm getting the anxious attached type now, and I'm I'm not an avoidant by any means, but I'm a red flag cut it off kind of person.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, more from a secure standpoint.
SPEAKER_02From a secure standpoint, yeah. So I think that control, when you look at that and the manipulation and all these things, yeah, it does boil down to what's internally bubbling up. And until you work that out yourself, you're gonna cons consistently and constantly put that on somebody else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh yeah, you hit on a really important piece. So um avoidance, especially dismissive avoidance, are really difficult for they're really difficult for an anxious attachment style, but they're even difficult for a secure. Because a dismissive, because of the lack of vulnerability, lack of empathy, again, goes back to earlier in their years, they grow up in environments where vulnerability is almost shunned. You we we as parents or this family, we don't have time for expressed feelings and emotions and for you to have problems. We just don't have time for that. So bury it and move on. So you you begin to build that, and then a dismissive avoidant is the result. But a dismissive, because of how quickly they can detach, they will pull a secure into anxious attachment. So all of a sudden, you're like super secure, like I have no anxiety or worries or issues, you know, in a general sense. But all of a sudden, they are in a relationship with a dismissive and they're like, oh my gosh, she won't talk about it, or he won't dive into anything, and we're trying to get this solved, and I can't get anywhere. So those are big, big pieces, and then that control mechanism just kind of going back to that a little bit. There, their control, anxiety, depression, all of that, even what I experienced was a form of needing to control. I couldn't control the plane because if I wanted to get out, nobody's getting out at 35,000 feet, and I'm in the elevator, I'm not stopping it and getting out on, you know, like there was so there's control wrapped into all kinds of different things, and it comes out of unresolved trauma, some insecurities, things like that.
SPEAKER_02It makes the question though, because this is difficult for a secure person. How do you, if you really truly love somebody and you're dealing with a dismissive, avoidant, how do you help break them of that? Because that's really something that they have to do themselves. And it just because you're secure does not mean that you don't feel the feelings and you don't hurt. It just means that you're respecting your boundaries more and you're putting yourself first and not letting yourself get brought down into something that you've already overcome. But again, is there a way where a secure person can help a dismissive avoidant?
SPEAKER_00They can as long as the dismissive acknowledges and talks about the fact that they need to move off of being a dismissive.
SPEAKER_02So they need to be no they need to know what they are bringing to the table.
SPEAKER_00For sure. And I I know a lot of people who are dismissive avoidance, and a lot of them are very aware of where they're at.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_00And a lot of them aren't. So the difference is can two people who are in kind of opposite ends of the spectrum um have a successful relationship together? They can, as long as you can you can discuss it, you can talk through it. Um because what'll what'll pull a secure into anxious is if you're wanting to have a really deep, vulnerable conversation with a dismissive and they just don't have the time or the bandwidth to go deep, that becomes a problem because now the secure doesn't feel content, doesn't feel secure in their relationship. If I can't fully know that person, if I can't fully understand what their fears are, what they've gone through, what their childhood looked like, they're carrying something that they just will not talk about. If you can't fully know and trust that person, that'll pull a secure into anxious. So there is a lot of dynamics that go into a dismissive avoidant and an avoidant in in general. Um there's a lot of dynamics there for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it doesn't seem like vulnerability and strong communication would be a character trait of that of an avoidant, and I think that they desperately need to my question then you said that some of them are aware, a lot of them are aware. Do they ever regret detaching like that because or is it just something that they're so okay with because it's just I'm gonna live my life like this. If they if they can't put up with my BS, then I'm just gonna I'll find somebody else that can.
SPEAKER_00So think of it, think about it this way with a dismissive. Um, they're totally fine with it because it's comfort for them. Dismissives oftentimes do not want to be vulnerable because they don't want to be found out. That's how they think. You know, if I were to sit, if I were to sit here and you were to ask me, like, you know, what was your childhood like? Oh, it's fine. I thought it was fine. Hmm, interesting. Um, anything, you know, happened in a negative sense. No, no, no, it's totally fine. No. Well, obviously you know my store story a little bit now, but that's how dismissive act act in relationships. You know there's something there that they will not uncover or deal with. So therefore, you can't fully know that person, you don't fully trust that they're gonna tell you everything that you need to know. That's why people become so anxious in those relationships. It's kind of like somebody who has a deep issue that they know they need to deal with, and it's causing a problem in a relationship. That person will go lean on other people who will validate and help them rationalize their spot. That's their that's their comfort spot. So it's no different than when I used to get off airplanes and I'm walking out of the airport. Of course, I'm gonna call somebody that can help me be okay with what I just did because I'm carrying all this shame and guilt. For me, it was my mom, and I've talked to her about this many, many times. So this isn't some sort of uh um something we haven't uh walked through, but I would immediately call her and she would make it all right. No, no, you just go, no, don't do anything that but that's all she knew. So it's the same thing for a dismissive, they lean into what's comfortable and what they know, and that's just you're clear of anything that's going to make them found out, and then go to their safe place for that to fill that void and feel normal again. That's right. And they're very communicative on things they're fine communicating about. But the minute that you peel the onion back a little bit on them where they could potentially be exposed, off limits.
SPEAKER_02This is why it's so important to know yourself and love all the parts of yourself, and people are gonna get sick of hearing this, but I have to say it and I have to keep reiterating it. You have to be comfortable with yourself so direly, so just honestly, and love all those pieces so you can work through those pieces of the ups and downs. And once you own that, it's like a freedom. That black cloud, because nobody can use that against you. What you've been running from, you're now facing yourself, so nobody else can use that against you once you are okay with it yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, very, very well put.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Once a man has been through a toxic relationship or a brutal breakup, how does he start learning to please himself, enjoy his own life, and love himself again so that his next relationship is actually healthy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. So um I would say the first thing um it depends on what took place in the relationship. Um, I can speak from experience in this, and I can also speak through many of the men that I've coached that have gone through this. The first thing that they need to do is see themselves through the lens and how they were created. Um, they were created uh very intentionally, very perfectly. Um, God doesn't make any mistakes. So because you've gone through a thing doesn't make you that thing. Because that's so good. You went through um years of you know falling into somebody being able to or choosing to control you, it doesn't make you a controllable person. You participated in something for a length of time, but what can you learn from it coming out of it? So back to your question, you know, we have to be able to peel these things apart. It's kind of like putting a puzzle together. What do you what does a person normally do? Well, you take all the pieces out, spread them out on the table, and slowly start to put this thing together. We have to make sense of why we are okay doing that thing or participating in that relationship the way it was. Um, you know, why does why is somebody um totally fine being told they're not allowed to do something? Well, why am I not allowed to do that? Because I sudden I don't want you to. Because I'm uncomfortable with it. Why are you uncomfortable with it? I don't want to get into it. So then you begin to kind of be tugged along, and all of a sudden you're acting such out of care, you know, you're out of your own character. So coming out of a relationship, I I think it's important to examine everything that went into it, and then taking a look at relationships prior to that. Um, generally, there are connectors. There might not be the same ones, the identical ones, but there could be there's generally very common common themes. People also fall into toxic relationships, and toxicity can mean a lot of things. Control, manipulation, narcissism, they're they're all kind of connected. And um being able to step back, this was always super helpful for me. Identifying in the beginning where there were red and yellow flags that you chose to ignore. Why did you choose to be okay moving forward, knowing that person just made that very clear to you? Um, if we're gonna be in a relationship, we're not doing this, not doing this, not doing that. I'm never gonna do that. We um, especially people who have grown up with some kind of trauma, abandonment trauma is a big one, where it's not always the the the picture of you know kind of being left on the side of the road. Abandonment trauma is is somebody being detached. Somebody left me. Um abandonment trauma can happen when somebody passes away. But the idea of somebody leaving, if you have that trauma that's never been dealt with, then you bind yourself to that person. You're okay with what they tell you they're gonna be controlling you with because it's not there, you're you know what's gonna keep them close to you, and it's doing what they want. But you're doing it out of character, and you know that you're not doing it for the right reasons. So examining all of those different things and going back and being accountable to them. Yeah, that's exactly what they told me in the beginning, and I chose to move forward. So to sort through all of that, process it, and say, okay, the next time around, if I hear these types of things or anything similar, I'm gonna know that I need to sit and pause and re-examine what I'm doing. So it's kind of like taking inventory on your decisions.
SPEAKER_02I love that. And I think that plays a big role into people that just need to, man or woman, you really need to get clear about your own boundaries and feel very safe in communicating those and be so unwavering with them to protect yourself. And I think that that helps identify the red, yellow, and even green flags to move forward or not to move forward. And, you know, I know people get sick of hearing that word boundaries, but it is so important. Once I once I put boundaries, my friendships changed, my relationships changed, my family dynamic changed, and I'm a better person for it. So I can't help everybody become their best version. I can lead by showing them what I have done so that I'm safe and leading from that kind of that kind of way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I hate to even say it, but we're down to our last question. Um, and this is something that's very near and dear to me. It's about men's mental health. And right now we're facing such a suicide crisis, and men aren't getting the help or the space that they need to combat this epidemic. Yes, we talk about it, but we really need real solutions. And I do feel that this is something that conversations can help, and just knowing that there are other people going through this. But with that, uh, let's go into the question. We know men are dying by suicide at nearly four times the rate of women in the United States, and they account for close to 80% of all the suicides. From the men you work with, why do you think this is happening? And what are we missing in how we support men emotionally?
SPEAKER_00So I think the the big issue there, men often look back and take inventory on the decisions, decisions that they've made and look at it as disqualifiers. I'm accumulating disqualifiers in my life. And I have this, this, this, this, this, and this. And now I'm at a point where I get to sit in that toxicity and that shame and understand that the decisions that I've made that I've participated in have caused that harm, my harm, this harm over here. And society, especially, you know, we touched on it earlier with social media, there's such a level of measure in comparison out there right now. And if you see yourself through the lens of that performance constantly, and uh giving yourself all of these check marks in the in the con column and not understanding that you're building, you're you're building growth and there's opportunity out of those mistakes, you could go down a very dark pathway in a hurry. Um, and and not being able to secure yourself to the idea that you were perfectly, intentionally, and wonderfully made in the eyes of God to per to to achieve a purpose. It wasn't an accident. You're here for you're here intentionally because you're supposed to be here. There is a purpose and a plan for your life, not just to take up space. Um, you're not disqualified because you've made some mistakes. And I'm as guilty as anybody in walking through that dark process. Um I was dealing with the whole getting off the airplane thing. I mean, I looked at myself like, you're the only weirdo in this world who's doing this. Like there's something wrong with you. Like you are out of your mind.
SPEAKER_02What a lonely feeling, though, as well. Horribly lonely. So alone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and a lot of men are dealing with that. So another part of this, too, that I think is so vital, men, men are not launching and leading like they're supposed to be. Launching and leading is not only for the people around you that you're charged with to care for, but for yourself. You are supposed to lead yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And once that level of defeatingness like steps in, and you start to look at other people, well, you know, they're my age, and I see they're doing this on social media, and oh, look at they got this house and this relationship, and they're over here, and um, and look at me. I'm worthless and I haven't achieved anything. Men need to understand their story is still being written.
SPEAKER_02Oh I mean that is a powerful statement right there.
SPEAKER_00So I don't care what age you are. Um we're in school every day.
SPEAKER_02Give me chills, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_00You know, whether you're 80 and you just figured some of that stuff out, or you're 15 or somewhere in between, it doesn't matter. There is purpose behind the pain. Um, there is um growth and opportunity behind the mishaps and the bad decisions. So, with that, men need to step out of their comfort zone, step away from the comfort of this, and get out and get it get with some strong men that can act as mentors, leaders, and a strong network of people that they can rely on. That is decision number one, in my opinion. Get around some strong men who are also leading and start have them start to be your accountability partner. Who are my guys that are walking arm in arm with me through what I'm going through? Who's willing to do that?
SPEAKER_02And don't be scared to lose friends. You when you grow and you level out of people, it's nothing is wrong with you. I had to really look at my life, and I went through a period of time where I felt extremely alone because I was growing, but all these people, I felt kind of a not abandoned because I knew I was growing out of it, but you do feel very lonely. And so I my message to anyone that is looking for a new crew, leveling up and growing, your life will look differently and that your relationships and friendships will look differently as well.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And then one thing I want to highlight on that, because there's this fear, especially if people have abandonment trauma with family, they want to gravitate and just latch on to anybody and everybody that they can because it's it's quantity sometimes over quality. I've got all these people I feel supported. It doesn't mean you have to completely eliminate those people, they just have a different place.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_00They might be a tier B and C. They may not be A anymore because you are tweaking and adjusting and bringing a different set of A men into your life that can be what you need to grow, to be accountable to, to take ownership, that we're gonna boost you up and walk with you.
SPEAKER_02That's incredible. There's so much to unpack. We might have to do a number two because there are. I don't even want to get into the fundamental issues that we're seeing with women that are leading with their masculinity, and it's forcing men to take more of a femininity role, and they're not sure. We talk about you know, of men needing to lead and they're not sure culturally now, because women really are taking the place of being that masculine person for themselves because they haven't had that safe place.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. That that could be a whole separate topic that is and it just might.
SPEAKER_02Well, Josh, thank you so much. Where can folks find you your Valor um men's coaching site? If you can let the audience know, as well as any socials.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Valormen's coaching.com. Um you can find me there um on all the socials, um, on Instagram and Facebook. I'm under Josh Kepp.
SPEAKER_02And um the information will be below. So go find him. You guys, these uh conversations are so important. I cannot thank you enough, Josh, for just being completely vulnerable and leading the charge for men these days. We really do need it. It's time to turn this ship around and get men on a healthy um path.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_02And so for those out there that love what we talked about today, there's gonna be more of it with the new segment Dear Men, where we can just really be vulnerable and start understanding what the actual problem is so we can get to the root and find solutions. This has been Dear Heather, segment Dear Men. Tune in next time. Thank you so much. All right, you guys, that's a wrap on this one, but the conversation doesn't end here. It just can't. So here's how you become part of the movement. Share this episode with someone who needs it. Follow the show so you're always in the room when it matters. Drop a review, it's how new people find us, and tag me on social media because I want to know what hit you, what challenged you, and what you're going to do differently because of it. We're not just talking about change, we're building in one episode, one conversation, one person. I'm looking at me.
